1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:09,280 [Music] 2 00:00:13,450 --> 00:00:11,110 matter everybody knows that 3 00:00:15,390 --> 00:00:13,460 consciousness is deeply tangled or 4 00:00:18,519 --> 00:00:15,400 entangled with a lot of these other 5 00:00:21,609 --> 00:00:18,529 topics and and concepts quantum 6 00:00:27,249 --> 00:00:21,619 phenomena randomness sigh causality free 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:27,259 will and it's one big tangled mess and I 8 00:00:31,229 --> 00:00:29,090 don't claim to be able to untangle all 9 00:00:33,819 --> 00:00:31,239 of that but at least we need to be 10 00:00:36,210 --> 00:00:33,829 constantly aware of how complex the 11 00:00:39,220 --> 00:00:36,220 problem is that we're dealing with 12 00:00:42,070 --> 00:00:39,230 it leads all of us myself included into 13 00:00:46,270 --> 00:00:42,080 a lots of confusions about common 14 00:00:48,310 --> 00:00:46,280 concepts and so unfortunately what what 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:48,320 seems to end up happening is a lot of 16 00:00:54,340 --> 00:00:50,810 the discussion is a word salad taken 17 00:00:56,260 --> 00:00:54,350 from this slide and and there's not 18 00:00:58,900 --> 00:00:56,270 nearly as much clarity as there needs to 19 00:01:00,850 --> 00:00:58,910 be for good traction I think how is 20 00:01:01,990 --> 00:01:00,860 consciousness like Las Vegas well it 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:02,000 looks very different to different 22 00:01:07,929 --> 00:01:06,290 visitors it's exciting and attractive 23 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:07,939 it's filled with bright lights and 24 00:01:12,219 --> 00:01:10,490 promise of great rewards it seems like 25 00:01:15,730 --> 00:01:12,229 there's a lot of neon around the concept 26 00:01:19,030 --> 00:01:15,740 of consciousness and and people see it 27 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:19,040 as somehow very attractive a very 28 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:23,210 central to the whole problem of how the 29 00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:25,130 human being functions and how our 30 00:01:28,090 --> 00:01:26,510 interactions with the world and how 31 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:28,100 these phenomenon take place and so on 32 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:31,130 and I'm just suggesting that we're 33 00:01:36,070 --> 00:01:32,810 putting a little too much emphasis on 34 00:01:39,010 --> 00:01:36,080 this some cases so this is neon lights 35 00:01:40,810 --> 00:01:39,020 in Las Vegas but it's strangely 36 00:01:44,310 --> 00:01:40,820 unsatisfying after a while and off and 37 00:01:48,399 --> 00:01:44,320 leaves you a bit poorer than before I 38 00:01:51,310 --> 00:01:48,409 think our focus is somewhat misplaced or 39 00:01:52,539 --> 00:01:51,320 emphasis is misplaced some somewhat and 40 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:52,549 of course whatever happens there stays 41 00:02:00,640 --> 00:01:57,890 there ok so the first thing that gives 42 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:00,650 me a rash is people don't define what 43 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:02,570 they're talking about with respect to 44 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:06,890 consciousness and this is all pervasive 45 00:02:12,010 --> 00:02:09,049 really there's so many different 46 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:12,020 definitions of consciousness 47 00:02:17,290 --> 00:02:14,630 do you have it when you're asleep does 48 00:02:20,260 --> 00:02:17,300 it require self-awareness do you have it 49 00:02:22,270 --> 00:02:20,270 in a coma does an animal have it are you 50 00:02:24,810 --> 00:02:22,280 talking really about mind or about soul 51 00:02:28,420 --> 00:02:24,820 or about the self the self identity or 52 00:02:30,820 --> 00:02:28,430 as some people say Chris left caught 53 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:30,830 says it's basically the ability to 54 00:02:38,230 --> 00:02:33,050 discriminate and integrate information 55 00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:38,240 from sensory inputs this author Vemma 56 00:02:44,350 --> 00:02:40,640 listed greater than 40 definitions in 57 00:02:47,170 --> 00:02:44,360 the Journal of consciousness the Journal 58 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:47,180 of consciousness studies a couple of 59 00:02:52,390 --> 00:02:50,210 years ago and talks that I've heard here 60 00:02:56,290 --> 00:02:52,400 so far with my admittedly biased 61 00:02:59,770 --> 00:02:56,300 viewpoint on this that had consciousness 62 00:03:02,200 --> 00:02:59,780 in their main subject content eight of 63 00:03:04,780 --> 00:03:02,210 them and none of them really defined 64 00:03:08,260 --> 00:03:04,790 what they're meaning for consciousness 65 00:03:13,030 --> 00:03:08,270 was and what the concept meant in terms 66 00:03:14,860 --> 00:03:13,040 of their content so from this you get a 67 00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:14,870 lot of pessimism about consciousness 68 00:03:18,820 --> 00:03:16,760 people who are highly respected 69 00:03:21,340 --> 00:03:18,830 intelligent knowledgeable and certainly 70 00:03:23,140 --> 00:03:21,350 well-meaning say things like physics has 71 00:03:25,270 --> 00:03:23,150 to be replaced by new laws and there's 72 00:03:26,860 --> 00:03:25,280 something fundamentally missing and and 73 00:03:29,350 --> 00:03:26,870 nobody has a faintest idea what 74 00:03:31,180 --> 00:03:29,360 consciousness is and the slightest idea 75 00:03:34,420 --> 00:03:31,190 how anything material could be conscious 76 00:03:36,130 --> 00:03:34,430 sorry I'm just not buying all that and I 77 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:36,140 think we already know quite a bit about 78 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:39,350 consciousness in in the in the naive 79 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:41,690 sense about it how it works in the brain 80 00:03:47,050 --> 00:03:45,050 and we know something more than is 81 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:47,060 commonly recognized as I'll try to say 82 00:03:53,020 --> 00:03:50,090 about how conscious conscious 83 00:03:54,850 --> 00:03:53,030 functioning in the human brain brings 84 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:54,860 about phenomenon that we think of as 85 00:03:58,620 --> 00:03:56,810 anomalous or so strange that 86 00:04:01,330 --> 00:03:58,630 consciousness must be something special 87 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:01,340 so I think that these comments are just 88 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:05,090 not justified Hawking says the brain is 89 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:09,010 a computer but there's no afterlife so 90 00:04:13,150 --> 00:04:11,510 I'll go along with the first the brains 91 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:13,160 pretty much a computer but there's more 92 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:15,170 to it than we think and certainly he's 93 00:04:21,130 --> 00:04:18,650 not acknowledging the evidence for 94 00:04:22,540 --> 00:04:21,140 survival and reincarnation so forth 95 00:04:25,090 --> 00:04:22,550 which I happen to think is pretty strong 96 00:04:28,590 --> 00:04:25,100 so there's a real mixed bag 97 00:04:31,450 --> 00:04:28,600 there we might classify the phenomenon 98 00:04:34,810 --> 00:04:31,460 surrounding and connected to 99 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:34,820 consciousness in in four levels starting 100 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:38,510 out with Chalmers easy and hard problems 101 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:40,490 the hard problem being how do we have 102 00:04:45,460 --> 00:04:43,130 experiences or an inner life or a sense 103 00:04:48,010 --> 00:04:45,470 of self and so on and the extraordinary 104 00:04:50,110 --> 00:04:48,020 phenomenon that people tend to get 105 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:50,120 excited about which includes an ESP and 106 00:04:54,730 --> 00:04:52,310 and various psychic phenomenon then of 107 00:04:58,150 --> 00:04:54,740 course there beyond extraordinary 108 00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:58,160 experiences that many people in this 109 00:05:02,710 --> 00:05:00,080 group are familiar with and take 110 00:05:04,930 --> 00:05:02,720 seriously reincarnation hauntings medium 111 00:05:08,950 --> 00:05:04,940 communication and so forth these are not 112 00:05:13,660 --> 00:05:08,960 only obvious obviously challenging in 113 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:13,670 the extreme they also have the potential 114 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:15,890 benefit of a lot of interesting hints 115 00:05:20,550 --> 00:05:17,450 and information about how the rest of it 116 00:05:24,220 --> 00:05:20,560 all works including the the simpler 117 00:05:28,570 --> 00:05:24,230 aspects of consciousness and so I think 118 00:05:30,370 --> 00:05:28,580 we shouldn't shy away from those given 119 00:05:32,110 --> 00:05:30,380 that viewpoint what is physics have to 120 00:05:34,750 --> 00:05:32,120 say about this and what's our opinion of 121 00:05:36,730 --> 00:05:34,760 it well these are these are kind of 122 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:36,740 options that I hear from time to time 123 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:39,050 physics is deeply wrong we're gonna have 124 00:05:44,770 --> 00:05:40,490 to rewrite it completely with new 125 00:05:46,930 --> 00:05:44,780 principles new new center focus fahsai 126 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:46,940 or something it's incomplete some tweaks 127 00:05:51,010 --> 00:05:48,770 are necessary or maybe just a new point 128 00:05:54,340 --> 00:05:51,020 of view what we have or of course the 129 00:05:55,660 --> 00:05:54,350 extreme view that it's all correct and 130 00:05:58,540 --> 00:05:55,670 everything else is just a hallucination 131 00:06:01,300 --> 00:05:58,550 I come down somewhere in the middle here 132 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:01,310 and I'll show a little bit of why I 133 00:06:07,570 --> 00:06:05,710 think some tweaks will make it much more 134 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:07,580 powerful with respect to these 135 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:10,550 interesting phenomena then most people 136 00:06:16,090 --> 00:06:13,450 would would think at this point 137 00:06:17,590 --> 00:06:16,100 unfortunately though this leads to lots 138 00:06:20,110 --> 00:06:17,600 of misunderstandings about quantum 139 00:06:24,430 --> 00:06:20,120 mechanics and it's a screwy subject and 140 00:06:26,890 --> 00:06:24,440 it contradicts common sense typically 141 00:06:29,610 --> 00:06:26,900 but what needs to change is our idea of 142 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:29,620 not of common sense not our 143 00:06:34,780 --> 00:06:32,450 interpretations of the physics 144 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:34,790 and I don't mean we have to cancel 145 00:06:38,290 --> 00:06:36,770 common sense and start over anything we 146 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:38,300 just need to tweak our common sense a 147 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:40,730 little bit so people often say that 148 00:06:44,650 --> 00:06:42,800 super super position means that 149 00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:44,660 something can take two paths at once and 150 00:06:49,270 --> 00:06:46,880 the particle goes through both slits and 151 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:49,280 that sort of thing well it's not true if 152 00:06:52,630 --> 00:06:50,690 the particle does not go through both 153 00:06:56,620 --> 00:06:52,640 slits and half particles do not go both 154 00:06:58,720 --> 00:06:56,630 through both slits and semi-transparent 155 00:07:01,480 --> 00:06:58,730 phantasms of two particles do not go 156 00:07:03,070 --> 00:07:01,490 through two slits like I think York was 157 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:03,080 saying what goes through the two slits 158 00:07:07,870 --> 00:07:06,050 or the possibility of a particle goes 159 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:07,880 through both slits when it gets to the 160 00:07:12,010 --> 00:07:09,860 screen at the end it ends up at one 161 00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:12,020 place the single particle only hits the 162 00:07:16,030 --> 00:07:14,390 screen at one place there may be an 163 00:07:18,460 --> 00:07:16,040 interference pattern of what's 164 00:07:20,050 --> 00:07:18,470 interfering as possibilities and the 165 00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:20,060 whole message of quantum mechanics if 166 00:07:24,060 --> 00:07:21,670 you want to look at it this way is that 167 00:07:26,970 --> 00:07:24,070 possibilities must be taken seriously 168 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:26,980 possibilities matter 169 00:07:31,150 --> 00:07:29,210 similarly measurement implies that 170 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:31,160 observation creates reality nothing's 171 00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:33,230 real the moon isn't there until we look 172 00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:35,840 it's just simply not true knowledge 173 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:38,000 collapses the wave functions and human 174 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:40,120 human knowledge or a conscious observer 175 00:07:46,060 --> 00:07:43,610 collapses the wave function not not so 176 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:46,070 quantum mechanics says that an 177 00:07:50,650 --> 00:07:48,170 irreversible amplification of a 178 00:07:55,390 --> 00:07:50,660 microscopic quantum measurement to the 179 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:55,400 macroscopic realm is is what constitutes 180 00:07:59,170 --> 00:07:57,290 a collapse of the wavefunction it is the 181 00:08:02,290 --> 00:07:59,180 collapsed it's not something that causes 182 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:02,300 the collapse it is the collateral same 183 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:05,030 thing or equivalently a recording of 184 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:07,490 some quantum measurement a permanent 185 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:10,010 recording of that measurement collapses 186 00:08:15,340 --> 00:08:12,170 the wavefunction spooky action and a 187 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:15,350 distance this is what Einstein bosephus 188 00:08:20,610 --> 00:08:17,930 vociferously objected to for many years 189 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:20,620 of course it's not true that that 190 00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:23,330 entanglement enabled spooky action at a 191 00:08:27,430 --> 00:08:25,280 distance what it doest does enable is 192 00:08:31,170 --> 00:08:27,440 spooky correlation at a distance and 193 00:08:33,850 --> 00:08:31,180 again this is an important difference 194 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:33,860 just in communication instantly it's 195 00:08:38,709 --> 00:08:36,170 just not not true you can't actually 196 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:38,719 communicate with 197 00:08:43,950 --> 00:08:41,330 entanglement but as I'll show in a 198 00:08:45,970 --> 00:08:43,960 minute you can make it look like that 199 00:08:47,889 --> 00:08:45,980 entanglement enables sending a message 200 00:08:49,750 --> 00:08:47,899 back in time now you can't send a 201 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:49,760 message back in time actually you can 202 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:51,170 send a message back in time you just 203 00:08:55,780 --> 00:08:53,930 can't read it there this is really the 204 00:08:58,260 --> 00:08:55,790 way it works out 205 00:09:00,910 --> 00:08:58,270 Henry step for whom I have a lot of 206 00:09:02,980 --> 00:09:00,920 respect and affection says quantum 207 00:09:05,170 --> 00:09:02,990 mechanics is about consciousness quantum 208 00:09:08,530 --> 00:09:05,180 mechanics needs consciousness by virtue 209 00:09:12,699 --> 00:09:08,540 of its intrinsic structure sorry I just 210 00:09:15,610 --> 00:09:12,709 don't think that's that's correct and I 211 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:15,620 listened to Henry a lot because he says 212 00:09:20,740 --> 00:09:17,930 things that I don't agree with and you 213 00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:20,750 should always listen to your opponent's 214 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:23,240 Anthony Leggett the ears here are two 215 00:09:27,490 --> 00:09:24,890 more really sensible statements 216 00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:27,500 Anthony Leggett says maybe somewhat more 217 00:09:30,670 --> 00:09:29,360 dance it may be somewhat dangerous to 218 00:09:32,410 --> 00:09:30,680 explain something one does not 219 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:32,420 understand very well by invoking 220 00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:34,130 something that one does not understand 221 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:38,990 at all and so on let's go on to psy 222 00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:41,200 phenomena and a little bit of physics 223 00:09:45,550 --> 00:09:43,310 people know that there are some 224 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:45,560 phenomena where conscious intention 225 00:09:49,269 --> 00:09:46,910 seems to have an effect in the world 226 00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:49,279 here's the entangled situation where we 227 00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:51,350 created entangled pair send them off 228 00:09:56,050 --> 00:09:53,870 each one is a superposition that means 229 00:09:58,030 --> 00:09:56,060 there's two possibilities zero and one 230 00:10:00,220 --> 00:09:58,040 in this case and they don't get 231 00:10:04,290 --> 00:10:00,230 determined until we measure and when we 232 00:10:07,199 --> 00:10:04,300 measure them each of them appears random 233 00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:07,209 totally random but they're the same 234 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:10,000 that's because of the entanglement but 235 00:10:14,610 --> 00:10:11,770 the way to look at this is that the 236 00:10:16,350 --> 00:10:14,620 measurement determines something that 237 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:16,360 was less than fully determined in the 238 00:10:21,090 --> 00:10:17,890 first place it was under constraint it 239 00:10:23,579 --> 00:10:21,100 could have been either 0 1 what happened 240 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:23,589 at the measurement in the future caused 241 00:10:29,070 --> 00:10:25,690 the thing to be whatever it was in the 242 00:10:31,889 --> 00:10:29,080 first place namely 0 or 1 and thus the 243 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:31,899 other one had to agree so now if we take 244 00:10:36,690 --> 00:10:34,870 a look at a sigh experiment that's very 245 00:10:38,850 --> 00:10:36,700 similar but flipped in time so the 246 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:38,860 interactions in the future this is just 247 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:42,910 like the BEM experiment there isn't any 248 00:10:46,110 --> 00:10:44,770 information that flows directly back and 249 00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:46,120 forth as far as we can tell 250 00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:48,160 instead there's a correlation being 251 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:51,760 created by a bias from the future by the 252 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:53,830 bias of the experimenter not what he 253 00:10:57,329 --> 00:10:55,600 thinks or what his unconscious thinks 254 00:10:59,460 --> 00:10:57,339 but what he actually does in the world 255 00:11:01,949 --> 00:10:59,470 how he conditions the future if you 256 00:11:04,050 --> 00:11:01,959 condition the future to accept more 257 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:04,060 easily lots of hits you'll get more hits 258 00:11:08,850 --> 00:11:06,250 by virtue of this correlation it looks 259 00:11:10,980 --> 00:11:08,860 exactly like its information transfer in 260 00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:10,990 this case backwards from from the future 261 00:11:18,410 --> 00:11:14,020 to the past but it's just an effect of 262 00:11:20,370 --> 00:11:18,420 the correlation ok spinning a head 263 00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:20,380 please don't tell us some of these 264 00:11:25,230 --> 00:11:22,300 things consciousness is required but in 265 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:25,240 con mechanics and sorry phenomena deny 266 00:11:30,930 --> 00:11:27,610 materialism and so forth it's just it's 267 00:11:34,850 --> 00:11:30,940 it's making unwarranted assumptions or 268 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:34,860 leaps but of course there are some 269 00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:38,410 phenomenon that people here are familiar 270 00:11:42,329 --> 00:11:40,300 with many of us are familiar with and 271 00:11:44,250 --> 00:11:42,339 I'm preaching to the choir but these are 272 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:44,260 really interesting obviously psychometry 273 00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:47,770 and reincarnation and haunting would 274 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:49,390 indicate or suggest some kind of 275 00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:52,240 imprinting of personality and memories 276 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:54,310 in consciousness and even physical 277 00:11:58,860 --> 00:11:55,810 characteristics like birthmarks and 278 00:12:01,260 --> 00:11:58,870 scars so there's something terribly 279 00:12:04,319 --> 00:12:01,270 interesting going on here and the in at 280 00:12:06,990 --> 00:12:04,329 least in principle is separable if not 281 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:07,000 separate from the physical brain so 282 00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:09,130 these are really 283 00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:10,480 things that interest me the most 284 00:12:15,390 --> 00:12:13,120 strongly indicated study is strongly 285 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:15,400 indicated so the focus ought to be on 286 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:17,110 these more careful definitions and 287 00:12:21,540 --> 00:12:19,810 understanding of physics research on the 288 00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:21,550 physics of sigh phenomenon just not the 289 00:12:26,190 --> 00:12:24,040 psychology alone of sight phenomena and 290 00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,200 we have to be willing to confront these 291 00:12:30,990 --> 00:12:28,240 challenging phenomena from an 292 00:12:33,210 --> 00:12:31,000 externalized feet on the ground 293 00:12:35,610 --> 00:12:33,220 scientific viewpoint and build bridges 294 00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:35,620 to mainstream science much more than is 295 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:39,150 is often being done today rather than 296 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:41,770 insisting upon large replacements of 297 00:12:47,310 --> 00:12:43,750 whatever is going on in mainstream 298 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:47,320 science or insertion of consciousness 299 00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:50,890 into the foundations for example of 300 00:12:56,780 --> 00:12:53,830 physics like matter and and energy I 301 00:12:58,590 --> 00:12:56,790 just don't think that's at all warranted 302 00:13:02,490 --> 00:12:58,600 consciousness at least at the highest 303 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:02,500 level can be thought of as a form of a 304 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:05,310 feedback loop or a set of very complex 305 00:13:12,180 --> 00:13:09,220 feedback self-referring loops and this 306 00:13:16,290 --> 00:13:12,190 is where identity begins to form and the 307 00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:16,300 the fundamental brain rhythms begin to 308 00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:18,340 form us through these large-scale very 309 00:13:22,650 --> 00:13:20,950 complex loops and we know a fair amount 310 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:22,660 about that it certainly doesn't explain 311 00:13:27,180 --> 00:13:25,510 the whole story but we're getting there 312 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:27,190 and if you don't think an artificial 313 00:13:32,430 --> 00:13:29,610 system could have the same connectivity 314 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:32,440 topology memory structure and so forth 315 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:34,270 and then it for some reason it wouldn't 316 00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:35,410 be conscious it wouldn't have 317 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:37,870 experiences then I would say the burden 318 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:40,450 is with you to explain why that would be 319 00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:43,210 different okay repeating what I said 320 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:45,790 basically some phenomena do suggest the 321 00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:47,710 separateness and I want to make one more 322 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:50,470 point about the progress of science to 323 00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:53,050 me it's all about the history of science 324 00:13:58,110 --> 00:13:55,420 is all about relinquishing in different 325 00:14:00,180 --> 00:13:58,120 steps our specialness in the world we 326 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:00,190 used to think that we the earth was set 327 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:02,170 it was the center of everything you just 328 00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,730 look up and you see the stars and the 329 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:05,440 Sun and all that going over we must be 330 00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:08,710 at the center not true of course we used 331 00:14:12,510 --> 00:14:10,780 to think that all these elements as we 332 00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:12,520 understood them were special but turned 333 00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:14,680 out they're all made out of much smaller 334 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:17,920 items which are all identical motion 335 00:14:21,690 --> 00:14:19,510 states we used to think there's a real 336 00:14:23,250 --> 00:14:21,700 rest state or a coordinate system in the 337 00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:23,260 world gradually everything 338 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:25,120 we tended to believe in associated with 339 00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:29,830 us in some way is has has been removed 340 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:33,280 by a simpler and more elegant theory 341 00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:35,380 life there's no magic 342 00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:39,430 they'll on VTOL and so on so to me the 343 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:41,440 logical extension the next step or one 344 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:43,450 of the next steps we need to take along 345 00:14:48,630 --> 00:14:46,090 this path is I am not special my 346 00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:48,640 consciousness my egocentric view of 347 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:52,630 everything which each of us has is not 348 00:14:58,110 --> 00:14:55,350 special it's not it's not important it's 349 00:15:00,480 --> 00:14:58,120 interesting it has important 350 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:00,490 interactions and implications in the 351 00:15:04,110 --> 00:15:02,290 world but it's not the thing that we 352 00:15:07,980 --> 00:15:04,120 should have at the center of our 353 00:15:10,050 --> 00:15:07,990 viewpoint or our activities in science 354 00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:10,060 Stephen Jay Gould said it better than 355 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:11,920 anyone the most important scientific 356 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:14,650 revolutions all include as their only 357 00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,290 common feature the dethronement of human 358 00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:19,120 arrogance from one pedestal after 359 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:21,550 another of previous convictions about 360 00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:32,610 okay well I think thank you we do have 361 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:40,390 time for questions dick I agree with 362 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:43,090 your general viewpoint that we need to 363 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:45,250 clarify our definitions and we have and 364 00:15:51,420 --> 00:15:47,650 invoked a lot of fuzzy concepts in what 365 00:15:54,390 --> 00:15:51,430 we're doing but I disagree with your 366 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:54,400 having taken one particular perspective 367 00:16:00,210 --> 00:15:57,130 on quantum mechanics as if that were the 368 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:00,220 only one because still quantum mechanics 369 00:16:04,860 --> 00:16:02,590 is is poorly understood it gives results 370 00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:04,870 but it doesn't give reasons or 371 00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:09,040 mechanisms in particular the von Neumann 372 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:10,590 perspective on quantum mechanics 373 00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:12,730 essentially says that the buck stops 374 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:15,700 with consciousness and that's all where 375 00:16:23,930 --> 00:16:18,610 as you said for example you're right we 376 00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:23,940 don't agree that that if you have a 377 00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:27,430 phenomenon which you then record you 378 00:16:31,170 --> 00:16:28,089 know 379 00:16:33,299 --> 00:16:31,180 a permanent recording medium such as a 380 00:16:35,309 --> 00:16:33,309 tape or a computer memory or something 381 00:16:38,309 --> 00:16:35,319 like that at that point you've collapsed 382 00:16:41,009 --> 00:16:38,319 the wavefunction on the other hand there 383 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:41,019 there are concepts and evidence that 384 00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:42,370 that's not true 385 00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:45,220 one piece of evidence is the famous 386 00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:48,100 Helmut Schmidt experiments in which he 387 00:16:52,139 --> 00:16:50,350 recorded information looks like you can 388 00:16:55,559 --> 00:16:52,149 always collapse let me just finish this 389 00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:55,569 and the next day he then modified the 390 00:17:02,460 --> 00:16:57,759 information that was recorded through 391 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:02,470 some sort of interaction and we just 392 00:17:11,159 --> 00:17:09,730 don't know we just don't know you're 393 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:11,169 right we disagree 394 00:17:15,449 --> 00:17:13,510 there's the quantum eraser experiments 395 00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,459 you know about I'm sure and there's 396 00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:16,959 various evidence that nothing's really 397 00:17:21,899 --> 00:17:19,929 permanent you can create a loop which is 398 00:17:23,639 --> 00:17:21,909 a memory element and then it feeds on 399 00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:23,649 itself you don't need the source any 400 00:17:26,939 --> 00:17:25,569 longer maybe that has something to do 401 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:26,949 with it I don't know we ought to explore 402 00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:31,890 these things more fully Von Neumanns 403 00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:37,720 consciousness was his interest in 404 00:17:43,529 --> 00:17:40,200 consciousness as the ultimate endpoint 405 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:43,539 might be true or a valid viewpoint from 406 00:17:52,169 --> 00:17:47,710 the point of view that for you it ends 407 00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:52,179 there but that doesn't mean that in the 408 00:17:56,730 --> 00:17:54,760 world in general that it's necessarily 409 00:18:02,909 --> 00:17:56,740 the endpoint or the right thing to focus 410 00:18:05,490 --> 00:18:02,919 on so to me that was one of those neon 411 00:18:09,149 --> 00:18:05,500 streets in Las Vegas that he went down 412 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:09,159 and turned up to be a dead end or and in 413 00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:13,450 the casino or something that didn't that 414 00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:17,070 didn't that wasn't satisfying to me 415 00:18:22,019 --> 00:18:19,620 except for the more or less trivial 416 00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:22,029 explanation that it's true for me when 417 00:18:37,529 --> 00:18:34,490 the the Helmut Schmidt experiments yeah 418 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:37,539 well as I say it may be possible to go 419 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:40,510 back and change the past but really what 420 00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:43,090 this theory says is that you can't 421 00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,830 change the past what you can do is 422 00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:46,240 change the way it turned out in the 423 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:49,600 first place I wouldn't really shouldn't 424 00:18:52,529 --> 00:18:51,250 even say that you can influence the way 425 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:52,539 it turned out in the first place 426 00:18:59,149 --> 00:18:55,390 that's the message of EPR in effect you 427 00:19:00,750 --> 00:18:59,159 started out with these two entangled 428 00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:00,760 particles each of which was a 429 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:02,529 superposition but by measuring one of 430 00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:03,850 them you determined to the other 431 00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,529 backwards in time and then for it again 432 00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:07,120 this is like the coastal bird 433 00:19:13,409 --> 00:19:11,070 Beauregarde zig zag interpretation so a 434 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:13,419 generalization of that same idea says to 435 00:19:18,330 --> 00:19:15,610 me that something that happens in the 436 00:19:21,269 --> 00:19:18,340 future can have an influence on a random 437 00:19:27,019 --> 00:19:21,279 in particular a random resource device 438 00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:27,029 or set of data in the past by in effect 439 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:28,840 deciding how it turned out in the first 440 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:30,250 place when it was under constraint 441 00:19:33,899 --> 00:19:31,480 that's what a random number generator 442 00:19:35,789 --> 00:19:33,909 does it's under constrain things it's 443 00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:35,799 really ironic that the thing that we use 444 00:19:41,340 --> 00:19:38,200 to separate our experiments from the 445 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:41,350 past is exactly that which allows us to 446 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:45,010 affect the past from the future so 447 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:46,000 that's how it explained those 448 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:47,890 experiments I hope that was at least 449 00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,080 we have one more yes/no question Thanks 450 00:20:02,150 --> 00:19:59,760 a very interesting presentation just to 451 00:20:04,510 --> 00:20:02,160 clarify your position in your reading of 452 00:20:09,530 --> 00:20:04,520 the mainstream quantum mechanics is 453 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:09,540 local realism empirically disproven yes 454 00:20:16,970 --> 00:20:10,850 or no 455 00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:16,980 both locality and realism I'd have to 456 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:21,480 say yes but I'm not sure the matter is